I'd say this Christian goes to Purgatory which means Heaven eventually after paying his punishment.



Both cases go to Heaven, you say?

Did Christ die so Christians can go on sinning with impunity?


And if both go to Heaven, how do you reconcile Rev. 21:27, "there shall not enter into it (Heaven), anything defiled, or that worketh abomination, or maketh a lie"?


Or how does St.Matt. 7:21-23 apply? Here Christ says that not all those who say to Him, "Lord, Lord, will be saved, but only those who do the will of the Heavenly Father."

Is the Christian who accepts Christ as his Lord and Savior doing the will of God when he commits adultery?

I reconcile Rev. 21:27 with Christ having cleansed us, therefore we are undefiled.

No, He didn't die to let people sin. He died to set them free from sin.

As for doing the will of the Father, if you define the doing the will of the Father as never sinning then you're still stuck with nobody going to heaven.

snicker   

This is true...that's why Christ warned Christians that they'll say, "Lord, Lord,....

Yes, doing the will of the Father is not sinning..."If you love me you will keep my commandments". A Christian who commits adultery violates the Sixth Commandment of God, is not doing the will of the Father.

This is the content and meaning of walking the hard walk and entering the narrow gate. Christ did His part...now we must do ours and that is besides having faith is keeping the commandments. There is no magic formula of sinning with impunity and still entering the kingdom of Heaven. There is only faith, hope (not presumption) and charity of God and our neighbor and doing the will of the Father.

Jythier,

If I understand Protestant Fundamentalism correctly, fundamentalist's have varying views of the relationship between justification and sanctification. For some Fundamentalists, salvation comes by one-time "accepting Christ as one's personal Savior". Aside from that one act of acceptance, no works, no good deeds and no sins---make any difference with respect to one's salvation. If one is "born-again" in Fundamentalism's sense, salvation has already occurred, is assured and nothing, not even being in a state of deadly sin can keep one from heaven.

Even though St.Paul doesn't use the word sanctification in Galatians, he does speak of "falling from grace" in reference to justification which shows that he considers it an event that can be reversed. It is true that the Galatians had trouble with the ceremonial law of Israel, but they also had a moral problem. We see this in St.Paul's warning that they will lose their inheritance in the kingdom of God for moral disobedience. Gal 5: 14-21.

IN the interest of not hijacking this thread, I'll not develop this any further, just really wanted to recommend reading Galations and my reasons why.   

He died to set them free from sin.

That's what I always believed!

dies on his way home from committing adultery of which he was immediately and truly remorseful from committing,snicker

! That's so bad!lol!

True, Christ's Cross redeemed all from their sin...

So, please explain how both these men in these two scenarios go to Heaven. Please explain as to how does Christ's Redemption free Christians, who accept the Lord as their personal Savior, to sin with immunity? Please explain then, how does Christ's redemption not count and condemn to Hell those who do not accept Christ as their personal Savior even if they were Baptized as our Lord mandated? Do you not see the conundrum?

Truth is, while Christians may entertain a hope, no Christian has a right to presume that his salvation is secure irrespective of the life he lives in the future after his acceptance of Christ.

We can never be sure of the gift of final perseverance in the faith, with absolute certainity. St.Paul tells us, "we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling" and later, even St.Paul wasn't positive he would enter the pearly gates of Heaven when he said, Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ, adding, "I chastise my body and bring it into subjection, lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway. 1Cor. 9:27.

I chastise my body and bring it into subjection, lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway. 1Cor. 9:27.

I read that to be that he himself is not perfect and might have sinned. As all humans inherrently do no matter if they say they are the most irrevent follower of Christ.

So, please explain how both these men in these two scenarios go to Heaven. Please explain as to how does Christ's Redemption free Christians, who accept the Lord as their personal Savior, to sin with immunity? Please explain then, how does Christ's redemption not count and condemn to Hell those who do not accept Christ as their personal Savior even if they were Baptized as our Lord mandated?

Because Christ died for us as Jythier pointed out. In so doing he absolves us from our sins and we should have all sinned no more. However, for those of us who have...well, that leaves us wide open for condemnation in God's eyes!

I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, I am not the most perfect person in the world and I have sinned a lot, but once I ask God for forgiveness I know he will forgive me because he said he would. I then move on with my life and hopefully will not sin again, but unless I live within white walls with no human contacts, that's higly impossible! Don't you think that we humans have quite a difficult task to not sin? Even some devote Christians do! I know a few who have been the perfect example of what a Christian should be, only to find out that they have been living a lie!

Yes, that's the way I read it too. Now, take that and knowing that St.Paul was the one whom St.Stephen forgave as he was being stoned to death and consequently was knocked off his horse by the light of Christ and was immediately changed and eventually converted and who surely must have been a holy man that is as holy as one can be, yet, who still didn't presume that he was automatically going to Heaven...I find that remarkable...and a remarkable lesson for all of us as well...we can't sit back on our haunches and do whatever and think that no matter what we do we are automatically
getting in the narrow gate..



Oh, yes, for sure. We are all severely tempted, by the flesh, the devil and the world...everyday temptation is there all around us. That is the Christian battle...to overcome sin and evil with God's grace and through Christ's merits on the Cross.

Again, thank you for writing and guiding this most interesting
discussion.

Again, thank you for writing and guiding this most interesting discussion.

Thank you too! It's been very enlightening with everyone's thoughts and opinions!

It's not so much that God is focused on whom He can send to the pit, but it's rather a case of God focusing on those who will follow Him. Those are the ones He will take with Himself when He comes back to earth. The rest of those who chose to not follow Him, i.e., not go with Him, will be swept away into a place that was originally created by God for the fallen angels that rebelled in God's heaven. While it was not originally created for humans, those who chose to not follow God end up there instead with Satan and his fallen angels [demons].

Choose God.

The rest of those who chose to not follow Him, i.e., not go with Him, will be swept away into a place that was originally created by God for the fallen angels that rebelled in God's heaven. While it was not originally created for humans, those who chose to not follow God end up there instead with Satan and his fallen angels [demons]

And therefore for humans this place becomes hell? Hell on earth? OR wherever it is! That's a simplistic way of looking at it. A seemingly good explanation!

If hell doesn't exist, why should heaven exist?

The New Testament of Sacred Scripture clearly teaches the doctrine of Hell.

Several of the parables end with the condemnation to Hell. In the time of the harvest at the end of the world..."the angels shall go out and shall spearate the wicked from amongst the just. And shall cast them into the furnace of fire; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Describing the Last Judgment, Christ could not be more clear..."Then He shall say to them also that shall be on His left hand: Depart from me you cursed into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels."

Throughout St.John's Gospel is the theme of those who accept Christ shall enjoy eternal life, whereas those who reject Him will be lost forever and suffer eternal death.

Practically the whole of the second chapter of St.Peter's Epistle is devoted to the theme that wrongdoers will receive eternal punishment in Hell. St.Jude is even more emphatic. St.Paul was clear to the Thessalonians. "It is a just thing with God to repay tribulation to them that trouble you...In a flame of fire giving vengeance to them who know not God, and who obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction. Elsewhere he says that the unjust will not possess the kingdom of GOd.

Likewise, Scripture is replete with passages that refer to a future eternal kingdom which the just shall possess. Two Chapters of St.John's book of Revelation are largely devoted to the description of Heaven.

People modify their behaviour based on what other people believe all the time. I think a faith based on Pascals wager is not really faith - unless it is faith. What I mean is, if the wager causes one to act in such a way that shows the world (and God) that God is believed in, it is a very real faith. Whereas, if someone just says they believe in God but does not change their behavior to reflect that belief, then they are more likely just a liar.

If someone tells me there are bears on a mountain (I do not know anything first hand about bears, but I hear they like to stay away from humans as much as we like them to) then I would bring along a whistle and blow it every once in a while to alert the bears that I was coming so they could stay clear. Whereas, if someone were to hear about bears in the woods, and bring a whistle, but never blew it, they might still get eaten.