Life as I Know It; Family; Lifestyle; and Healthy Living!

 

In light of the uproar over Miley Cyrus' "scandalous" photograph ,[https://forums.joeuser.com/310120/page/1/#1719278], so vastly overrated!   I’m all for protecting our children and I am not certainly in favor of them being forced to grow up before their time.  In other words, doing or getting involved in anything that is not for them because they are too young and don’t need to be involved with anything that would be bad for them!

Braeden, aka Sancho Nino made a comment on the blog that I wrote regarding the scandal, it was an interesting and enlightening response which made me go ‘hmmm..”  and gave me more food for thought.

 

Sancho  Responded:

Maybe this is my newly-installed European sensibilities talking, but I don't get what all the fuss is about.

Went to the beach today. Saw hundreds of naked tits. Some of them on girls Miley's age.

And guess what?
BFD.
It's her back; it's not a seductive pose at all; and come on, people.

If folks be getting horny off stuff like this they need help anyway.”

 

 

 

Notice my emphasis on the first thing he said.  “Newly-installed European sensibilities”!  It got me asking myself, “Do we Americans get too hot and bothered too easily?”  “Do we tend to over-think and over-dramatized and tend to get too hot and bothered too quickly over everything, or at least most things?”   “Are we too prudish in our outlook, or maybe we are just too sensitive to our sexuality”!  The word itself seems to get us (speaking generally) all uptight! 

 

Braeden said that he was at the beach and saw hundreds (I know he was probably exaggerating, but it made his point!) of naked tits.   It is such a natural thing Europeans take so naturally, almost as if it’s as natural as breathing!

 

They don’t hide (I’m talking out of my mouth here – tongue in cheek – i.e. I don’t have facts, but merely from what I’ve read and some of the people I know) their bodies as much as we seem to do.  They are not scared of talking openly about sex and nudity the way we seem to be.  They are a pretty open (liberal, inhibited) bunch of people!

 

We tend to be too serious all the time when maybe we should laugh at something or not take it in the manner it seems to present itself, i.e., at face value! 

 

In our lives, so many of us are under strict rules and policies all the time.  So much so that we take these types of rules into our personal lives (unconsciously) and that is how we become so stressed! 

 

I know there are a few of us who do take it easy and not let things bother us.  But there is the other 80% who most times because of religion, turn into faceless people who adhere to only one thing, one way of living, one way of doing everything!  So we end up looking at life through these dark glasses and we don’t see beyond the lines that have been crossed for us.

 

Don't get me wrong, when it comes to our children, we are very protective of them, as we should be, however, there are times when we put our own insecurities on them and which becomes their burden. 

 

 

I know it’s not easy being a parent, more than anything else, I don’t even like to think that I’m a failure as a mom, because there are times I do feel like one.  Especially given the situation with my older daughter, leaving home early, that was a hard pill to swallow.  But as I told my husband recently, she might not have gone on the path we wanted her to go, but she is making her own way, and she is doing alright, she is just doing it on her own terms.  I think that is all our children want from us. As we as adults would want from our own bosses, or friends, or our spouses.  For someone to believe in us, trust us, and let us be to take our own path in life.

 

There will be times when it’s necessary to over re-act, when it is appropriate, like when children are being abused, but there are just some times, as in the case of a simple photograph, when over reaction is too much.

 


Comments (Page 2)
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on May 02, 2008
The many cases I've heard about myself about young girls and boys who are being abused by grown men and women, it is a sad, sad thing. It is horrific that there are children here and abroad who have to go through things like that, and live in situations like that every breathing moment. The picture is trivial over something like this for sure.



Yeah, it is horrible, beyond horrible. I myself was a statistic for a little over 10 years. My step dad abused me in every way possible. That's largely why I am like, "So what?" over this picture.

And I know the people who did protest it (the picture) went ahead of themselves and thought that this is where it would lead to with her (i.e., drugs, alcohol, etc).


That's just silly, heh. It's like saying that homosexuality will lead to polygamy, etc...

The thing is, as I said, they were putting the cart before the horse. She's a sensible girl, who still needs her parents guidance, obviously. But she was one of the lucky ones who tried something, and found out that it is not for her and realise that this is not the way to go. But instead of handling it in a way that would be positive for Miley Cyrus, all the media and every other person who was interviewed aobut it did was, predicted her downfall and basically made her feel like shit. Which kid needs that type of thing dumped on them....none!


Mhmm, we're putting the cart way ahead of the horse. In fact, while it is surprising that M/C did this, of all the teen stars out there, I actually have a lot of respect for her. In my opinion she's the most down to earth and respectable of the teeny stars. I men look at Britney spears ('course I think she has a credible excuse in bipolar disorder.), or lindsay lohan? Her (Miley) father is doing a good job so far. So far as I know.

Everyone has hangups. To pretend that somehow EUropeans are better (and that is ignoring the other 75% of the world to boot) because they do not have the same hangups is just as naive as thinking that everyone thinks the same - because it makes sense.


I personally really really (really!) like europe. Not to say I'm not proud of my country, but I've slowly realized I'm more of a global type of person. My family has strong European roots and honestly, there's some fascinating stuff over there.

The words I don't see anywhere are "modesty" and "appropriate". Are you guys really saying it is appropriate for a 15 year old girl to bare her back for the public? I don't think it is. She was literally inches away from a seriously chargable offense. "Of course, I don't think we should sexualize children either. Of course not!"Well then, what was the purpose of those photos?And as for Europe and their beaches...as sexy girl pointed out...those beaches make a better case for covering up than anything else.


Modesty and appropriate depends on values BFD, it's hard to really apply yours to others when they don't have the same ones.
on May 02, 2008

I can't speak for Europe or even other Americans.

This photo would not be appropriate for MY daughter.  Not at 15 and not for public consumption.

If it isn't about sexualizing a minor, then why have the top gone in the first place?  Wouldn't the picture have been just as good with it on?

And here's what really gets me about this whole deal.

Billy Rae Cyrus (her dad) was on set all day before leaving a couple hours before wrap up.  Why wait for him to leave before doing this?  Why not ask him?  And if it was so innocent why is she now saying how embarrassed she is?  That she wishes she didn't do it?

Take nudity out for a minute and ask yourself this....if you were with your kid at a photo shoot all day in which she wore jeans and a blouse, and as soon as you left they put her in a bikini without ever mentioning it, or asking permission...wouldn't you be pissed?

I would.

And then to have her regret it...if it wasn't wrong to her then she wouldn't be so sorry she did it.  She wouldn't be on national tv saying it was a mistake and she was embarrassed.

I feel for the kid.  She was taken advantage of by people she obviously trusted, publically humiliated by them.  That's the bigger crime imo.

 

 

on May 03, 2008

Good grief!  My computer was acting weird! I'll respond to you guys tomorrow, or make that later in the day since it is already tomorrow. 

on May 03, 2008

Honestly, what I think she really regrets is that it has caused such a major controversy.

Tova makes an intersting point.  It's not so cool to change the shoot like that after a parent leaves.  That more than anything is inappropriate. 

However, what I think the big deal seems to be is that Americans (I guess anywhere with a huge celebrity culture... Canadians mostly borrow the American one and Britain has some issue) have this huge desire to put someone on this untouchable pedastal and then it becomes a national pastime to see who can be the first to knock them off by catching them being human.  I can't imagine the pressure of being constantly watched for the smallest mistake and then having it broadcast everywhere.

I'm not just talking about the Brittany or Lindsay Lohan implosion.  Say if you're a celebrity who happens to have cellulite (despite the odds against that ever happening) and you're trying to lose weight, the media (maybe your agent?) makes you into a symbol.  Then everyone watches to see if you fall off the wagon and maybe take a lick of ice-cream.  Now you're the fattie who can't resist sweets and you're one step away from being carted to the fat-farm.  Take this template and apply it to a variety of situations.  A lot of people, and anyone with insecurities, will implode.

The other media obsession seems to be with the "fallen woman."  There are lots of freaky guys out there but they never make as good copy as when it happens to a woman.  The more a woman has been on the pedastal, the better the copy when she falls.  And if the fall isn't so big, it's exaggerated and harped on in hopes of forcing a bigger mistake.

The solution?  Stop looking to the media for role-models and look for real-life models closer to home.  Of course, your family or neighbor will never sell as many newspapers or bottles of perfume.  This is only a big deal because people are trying to sell newspapers and products.

 

on May 03, 2008

Honestly, what I think she really regrets is that it has caused such a major controversy.

Tova makes an intersting point.  It's not so cool to change the shoot like that after a parent leaves.  That more than anything is inappropriate. 

However, what I think the big deal seems to be is that Americans (I guess anywhere with a huge celebrity culture... Canadians mostly borrow the American one and Britain has some issue) have this huge desire to put someone on this untouchable pedastal and then it becomes a national pastime to see who can be the first to knock them off by catching them being human.  I can't imagine the pressure of being constantly watched for the smallest mistake and then having it broadcast everywhere.

I'm not just talking about the Brittany or Lindsay Lohan implosion.  Say if you're a celebrity who happens to have cellulite (despite the odds against that ever happening) and you're trying to lose weight, the media (maybe your agent?) makes you into a symbol.  Then everyone watches to see if you fall off the wagon and maybe take a lick of ice-cream.  Now you're the fattie who can't resist sweets and you're one step away from being carted to the fat-farm.  Take this template and apply it to a variety of situations.  A lot of people, and anyone with insecurities, will implode.

The other media obsession seems to be with the "fallen woman."  There are lots of freaky guys out there but they never make as good copy as when it happens to a woman.  The more a woman has been on the pedastal, the better the copy when she falls.  And if the fall isn't so big, it's exaggerated and harped on in hopes of forcing a bigger mistake.

The solution?  Stop looking to the media for role-models and look for real-life models closer to home.  Of course, your family or neighbor will never sell as many newspapers or bottles of perfume. This is only a big deal because the media is trying to sell newspapers and products.

on May 03, 2008

Sunbathing topless is just what many Europeans prefer. It is not like there's a mass orgy happening on the beaches because women of all ages walk around without a top on.


And here's another thought I had this early morning.

Who decided and when that women's bared breasts are immodest?  Why can men walk around shirtless all the time and it's no big deal, but it's a cardinal sin for women to do the same?

What is the physiological (or is it psychological?) difference between the flat-chested men and fat-chested women that gets us all in a dither?

on May 03, 2008

I'm tied up and not ignoring you guys.  Good discussion!  My daughter is 'hauling' me off to the pool, so later!

on May 03, 2008

I can't imagine the kind of sheltered existence someone would have to live where the sight of a woman's breast is so horrifying that their life is changed forever. But in the US this sheltered existences seem to be oddly common. What do parents do over there? Is every child bottlefed and then blindfolded at bathtime?

The more blase we are about the human body the fewer unhealthy sexual obsessions are likely to spring up.

My thoughts exactly...

Why is that? A body is a body. Sunbathing topless is just what many Europeans prefer. It is not like there's a mass orgy happening on the beaches because women of all ages walk around without a top on.

Well said.

Who decided and when that women's bared breasts are immodest? Why can men walk around shirtless all the time and it's no big deal, but it's a cardinal sin for women to do the same?

And again...

I had  a number of comments to make about this subject but mine seem to be covered more than adequately by the above, with the exception of one thing...  I believe the whole incident was probably a big set up to gain her even more publicity.  And guess what?  Its worked a treat...

on May 04, 2008
Well, breasts are physiologically for breastfeeding, but that's an evolutionary cue, hence it's sexual (appealing to most members of the opposite sex).

I think maybe there's a fine line between being blase and a complete pervert. Some sort of balance is probably ideal.

on May 04, 2008
SetarcosNous:
Are there public nude beaches here in the US? I thought they were all privately owned.


I've never lived in a beach front area where there were no nude beaches.


I like how you equate censorship with choice and how you imply there are no magazines in Europe devoid of nudity.


Why do you feel the need to misrepresent (read lie about) my comment?


That's right, in Europe they force you to look at naked people. No choice whatsoever.


again...


Americans may be too uptight about nudity, but you, SetarcosNous seem to have no problem being a pathetic liar.
on May 04, 2008

I do think Americans get 'hot and bothered' about anything perceive to be sexual. Look at movies the ratings board has no problem with movies with extreme violence but movies with sex scenes are look at harsher. Some movies even have to cut scenes (and I'm not talking about nudity) to avoid the dreaded NC-17 rating.

It'll be nice if we got 'hot and bothered' over worthy causes?

 

on May 04, 2008

I can't speak for Europe or even other Americans.

This photo would not be appropriate for MY daughter.  Not at 15 and not for public consumption.

If it isn't about sexualizing a minor, then why have the top gone in the first place?  Wouldn't the picture have been just as good with it on?

And here's what really gets me about this whole deal.

Billy Rae Cyrus (her dad) was on set all day before leaving a couple hours before wrap up.  Why wait for him to leave before doing this?  Why not ask him?  And if it was so innocent why is she now saying how embarrassed she is?  That she wishes she didn't do it?

Take nudity out for a minute and ask yourself this....if you were with your kid at a photo shoot all day in which she wore jeans and a blouse, and as soon as you left they put her in a bikini without ever mentioning it, or asking permission...wouldn't you be pissed?

I would.

And then to have her regret it...if it wasn't wrong to her then she wouldn't be so sorry she did it.  She wouldn't be on national tv saying it was a mistake and she was embarrassed.

I feel for the kid.  She was taken advantage of by people she obviously trusted, publically humiliated by them.  That's the bigger crime imo.

 

Great answer, Tova.

 

The media got what it wanted. They been trying to get her to be a tabloid star for awhile. Another teen star to exploit and sell millions of magazines. They also been trying to catch the cheerleader girl from 'Heroes' doing something. What gets me is people spend money on all that bullshit.

on May 04, 2008

Let me make it clear that I don't think Europeans are  better than we are, are us being better than them.  I also dont' think it's appropriate for a child to be sexualized! 

The fact that there is a sheet covering her is also questionable.  I don't think that either Miley or the photograher thought that photo would have been perceived the way it was at all.  They probably just wanted to give her a different look, see how she would be looking like that. Albeit now they both see it wasn't a wise decision.  Although I really can't speak for them both, but having seen some of the photographer's work, I doubt she intended to secualize Miley.

 

She was wrong in doing the picture without the parents knowlege.  Who knows, maybe they agreed to it being published after seeing it and didn't think it would create such a firestorm!

 

I think when it comes to sex and our sexuality, we are so uncomfortable because we think it is something that is a big no-no and hush hush and treat it in such a manner that even our children are afraid and think it's wrong. Some people won't even touch or kiss (chastely) in front of their children. 

 

We do tend to sexualize everything. We do it in the same way that we treat somone one of another race.  We think first of race, then we think of sexuality and that is how we become so embroiled in definitions that we have somehow forgotten that not everything is about blatant sex!

on May 05, 2008
Are there public nude beaches here in the US? I thought they were all privately owned.
I've never lived in a beach front area where there were no nude beaches.

Well, I've never been fortunate enough to live in a beach front area (unless you count camping on a beach in Guam for a week when I was 8), so to be clear it really was a question. (Still not completely answered. Are they public beaches.)

I like how you equate censorship with choice and how you imply there are no magazines in Europe devoid of nudity.

Why do you feel the need to misrepresent (read lie about) my comment?

I don't feel I was misrepresenting it. You were probably speaking we hyperbole, I was just showing the implications of what you said.
You said, "I like the fact that I get to decide if I want to buy magazines with nudity in them or not." Which implies that you wouldn't have that choice in Europe.

That's right, in Europe they force you to look at naked people. No choice whatsoever.
again...

Again, you said, "in Europe there are no choices, if you don't want to see nudity, well, tough." "No choices" sure sounds a lot like someone is forcing something to me.

Americans may be too uptight about nudity, but you, SetarcosNous seem to have no problem being a pathetic liar.

So, show me where I lied...
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