I think you bring up some interesting points here. It's pet peeve of mine when I hold a door open for someone and they breeze through like it's my job to hold the door for them. Doesn't anyone know they are supposed to take the door from you? And as for a pregnant woman not getting a seat on a bus or subway...don't get me started.

However, I don't think it's only men that should be making those sacrifices. I'm glad to hear that women gave up their seats for you when you needed it (at least someone did). No, I don't think a man should pay for a lunch that a woman invites him to - she should pay. Nor should there be any standing by men when a woman leaves the table. I'd be willing to go for: everyone stands when anyone leaves the table.

I think it is no longer about chivalry. I think it's about basic human respect. We've lost respect for each other, and apparently respect for ourselves. This issue, more than any other in our society, scares me. It's a strange superstition I suppose, but I feel like THAT is what spells the beginning of "the end".

But then, I always was a drama queen.

Oh, and I forgot to mention(So rude of me...): very nice article. It got me going. Thanks for posting.

I've always thought of chivalry as something exclusive to men, in particular knights, back in the good old days of yore or yesteryear or whenever, when women were supposed to be chaste and honorable, have no opinions or independence, and take to bed during menstruation.

Nowadays when a man or woman gives up a seat for me or opens a door I consider it courtesy. It's polite, and kind, but it's not exactly required by law or anything. You can blame ignorance, stress, bad tempers and just plain selfishness for the lack of it, but in the end, it's really just an ideal behavior, that very few people imo live up to.

And strap hanging on the subway does suck.

Dyl xx

I refer you to my chiverly is NOT DEAD article

Well, folks,

As a man who has been shouted down by feminists in the past for holding doors, I have to say, the attitude of many "modern" American women has a great deal to do with the death of chivalry. Give up your seat on the bus to a woman,and you may find yourself the subject of a diatribe against chauvinism.

If women WANT a return to chivalry, they need to be more active in shouting down the militant elements that have worked so hard to get rid of it.

but I feel like THAT is what spells the beginning of "the end".

Oh boy, I think I feel the same way.

and take to bed during menstruation.

This statement got me rolling...! Strap hanging did suck! I dont' miss it.

I refer you to my chiverly is NOT DEAD article

Ok, I'll check it out.

If women WANT a return to chivalry, they need to be more active in shouting down the militant elements that have worked so hard to get rid of it.

I guess it's a matter of damn if you do and damn if you don't. But the most thing any woman looks for is just common courtesy. I bet you most women would not say no to that.

If women WANT a return to chivalry, they need to be more active in shouting down the militant elements that have worked so hard to get rid of it.

So true. Sad that we can't all just be respectful and polite, and allow others to be so as well.

I think it is no longer about chivalry. I think it's about basic human respect.

I agree completely. Being a polite man, I say please and thank you and do it with a big smile. I hold doors open, offer up my seat and even let less laden people go ahead of me in shopping queues. I work on the assumption if I do this for others, eventually it will come around to me. I'm not looking for it, or wanting it, though. I think a great deal of angst could be saved if people were as capable of committing common courtesies as they are of receiving them.

I will relate one story though, as an example of when being courteous backfired on me. I don't know what my karma debt was that day, but it must have been big. I was working for a large public service department in their computing division. I was unloading some boxes of communication equipment from a car, along with a number of other people. As I was walking back out to the car, a woman who worked in our division but not my department was walking in carrying a printer. I held the door open for her then ran back to the elevators to call the next one up. When I got back to my office, my director requested to speak to me. He said a complaint of sexual harrassment had be made against me. Naturally, I was completely shocked, as was he. When he told me what I'd been accused of, I couldn't help but laugh. The woman I'd helped downstairs had made the complaint, citing that I'd 'belittled her efforts to do the same job I was doing". When I pointed out exactly what I'd done, and I would have done the same regardless of the sex of the other person. If this is indicative of the way some people carry on, then no wonder a lot of us can't be bothered being polite anymore.

My parents brought me up to respect humanity, help out where ever I can and be polite. I won't change my behaviour and I won't apologise for it. I live in hope that someday, those rude, unappreciative people will finally see what I am talking about.

Apologies for the hijacking.

Cheers,

Maso

Maso, no problem. You shouldn't have to apologise for being polite. I think it's ridiculous that you would be accused of sexual harrassment for being helpful. I guess if you hadn't done anything at all, it would have been some other bad comment going around about you. Ah well...

I live in hope that someday, those rude, unappreciative people will finally see what I am talking about.

So do I Maso, so do I. I certainly hope they do realize that, if they have kids, do and will follow their examples.

therefore chivarly doesn't apply to a stranger, but courtesy does.

Helix, this is all that anyone can ask for, courtesy.

Eh, I rambled, sorry.

And that's ok, you got your point across!

As one whose mother taught me in the "once ways" of opening the door for a woman and looking behind me to make sure I don't drop the door in someone's face, I've noticed that you can tell a lot about a person by how they react to such niceties.

I've found that women often think opening the door for them is flirting at best and sexist at worst. I remember one time when I opened the door for my wife, she went through, along with a couple of other women who were right behind us. Imagine my wife's reaction when one of the women looked at her and asked, "How does it feel to know that your husband want to ^(*& me?"

I've also been sworn at, hit, and threatened with lawsuits for being a sexist pig. Of course, I never took any of them that seriously, but they have left me wondering why I still do it. If chivalry is dead, it was killed by NOW and other so-called "feminist" groups.

Of course, then I get a few thank you's or smiles of appreciation and remember why mom taught me right.

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Do you know why nice guys finish last? We're stuck holding the door!!!! ;~D

Parated, that's insane! That was really rude of this woman. Hopefully you put her in her place, although you and your wife were probably too stunned to give her a good comeback! She has some nerve eh!

Well, I think it's good to do anyway, even if some people don't appreciate it. Like I said, I usually call out a sarcastic "You're Welcome" or "Thank you" to the ungreatful ones.

Ah, the nice guys will always be nice guys, mom taught them well!

Nice article, foreverserenity. I was thinking about these issues recently myself. As a young man, I usually give up my seat on the bus or subway if other people are standing.

Those who want to give up their seats should simply stand up and walk away and hope that the oldest/frailest of the standers gets the seat.

I don't like the demonstrative "giving up" of a seat with the wave of an arm as if to say "Oh please have my seat. Look at me everyone, I'm being chivalrous!"

As for holding doors, everyone shold do that for everyone else regardless of gender.

Chilvalry isn't dead, but it took a nasty blow when some bozo decided to use breasts as a marketing tool...

As a force of habit, I always walk on the outside of the path, because if a horse and cart were to go past very fast, I don't want my lady friend getting splashed with mud!

If women WANT a return to chivalry, they need to be more active in shouting down the militant elements that have worked so hard to get rid of it.

I agree. What about women's lib? Do women want special treatment just because they're women or not? It seems like some of them want to be liberated when it suits their agenda. If they have a different kind of agenda, they want chivalry. One time I went through a door ahead of a woman I was aquainted with. I didn't hold it for her. She said, "Thanks a lot." I asker her, "Aren't you liberated?" She said, "Sometimes." I'll hold a door open for anybody, male or female if for some reason they can't do it themselves.

Hey Cordy! http://iconoclast.joeuser.com/articleComments.asp?AID=68528