Yes, and Israel was to be a light to the world. The same with us today. We are to be a light to the world and show them the way. If we stay quiet and hide our light how will they know? That's why Christ said, be a beacon to a dark world. Light up those dark places.

You mentioned AD to Lula that we are not to judge the world but only believers quoting 1 Cor.

Yes the church shoud leave the judgment of unbelievers to God and concentrate on setting their own house in order but we are not to sit idly by and allow sin to reign in our corner of the world if we are able to have a say. We are to speak out and we have many clear examples of that in scripture. Our main concern always should be our own but we are also to warn others of the dire consequences of their actions should they continue.

Gideon posts:



Don't be frustrated over this Gideon. It's just a matter of seeing Ezekiel's meaning through. You have it, but haven't gone far enough in checking the full context of Ezekiel. KFC helped explain it when she wrote:



Ezekiel 16: verse 49 points to the root cause of Sodom's vices. It starts out with an easy life of luxury, careless of the needs of others, which leads to worse sins. The avoidance of idleness is a means to preserve virtue. Ezekiel wrote v. 3, 7 and 10 "In the first place we must flee from idleness...that it was through idleness that the people of Sodom succumbed and fell into the shameful evil of consupiscence." Homosexuality was the product of their idleness which ultimately led to consupiscence. This is meant to be a lesson for us...connect the dots what leads to what?

Come on Gid.. what your saying is scientific law and fact, what most people believe in has not ever been proven as a scientific fact and therefore "beliefs" are based on what each individual holds true by their own internal experiences. Just as there are many religions in the world and different denominations of each then there are beliefs and as a human race we need to accept and not judge people for what they believe in. Because what you think is "right" may not be "right" for someone else.

I agree with you though that the government should be neutral about these issues.

Now what if I was to put it in another way.. Here in Australia anyway we have people living in same sex relationships say with both people recieving an income and paying taxes. We also have people living in same sex relationships where both people are on a pension or disability or unemployment. Now in this case both people are receiving the maximum amount. Now in a heterosexual couple of the same situation the government looks at that relationship and says well your living in a couple relationship therefore we will give you the couple rate, which would be considerably less than if both were receiving the income seperately.

There is also the issues of superannuation and the rights of property etc. Say a same sex couple was living with each other for the past 40 years and one of them was to die. Then legally the living person would not be entitled to the other persons superannuation like a heterosexual couple would. This is unfair.

I think the majority of gay couples arent interested in getting "married" so it can be recognised by a religion, but by the state so that they are legally entitled to the same rights as people in a heterosexual relationship.

I know I am saying all this to mostly a christian american dominated forum so whatever people believe or hold true is not going to matter. Am I the only gay person who has put their 2 cents worth in this debate on here? Or is it only the heteros fighting it out here?

 

I realize now that you are not from the US, however, I'm curious

so, to ask Foreverserenity's question, does it bother you that 4 California Supreme Ct. Justices overstepped their judicial position of intepretating law to that of legislating that California law must be changed to include same-sex arrangements?



This is fuzzy thinking. Right is right and wrong is wrong. When did it change and on what grounds do you accept that what is right for one may not be right for someone else?

If one person is right and the other one isn't, then the person who is right has the truth and the other one hasn't the truth. If you want to go to town by bus but got onto the wrong one, would you ignore the busdriver and say, your right is not my right?
I daresay you wouldn't cause it doesn't make sense.

WHY IS THAT AXIOM "VALID" ONLY WHEN IT IS A QUESTION OF MORALS?

Well said, AD.  Yet there are those who persist in using their book as a light to shine on those who don't believe in it.  It is akin to me using, uhm... lets say the Bhagavad Gita to reiterate my points in a discussion with Christians.  Its just not going to take.

Again, this is a great point.  The biggest problem I have with this whole issue is that some parts of the community feel there needs to be legislation to start with.  Wouldn't it have been better to simply say live and let live? 

Now, come on, it is not fuzzy at all.  Your version of right (for instance - believing homosexuality to be a sin according to your beliefs) is not the same 'right' as I believe (that homosexuality is another condition of the human makeup).  Its a pretty simple concept, really.

The axiom is valid because you're referring to your idea of what is moralistic behaviour as opposed to another's point of view, which is completely different to yours. 

Either homosexuality is a sin or it isn't....I'm either 100% right or 100% wrong on this...that's what I meant when I said right is right and wrong is wrong.

I say Homosexuality is a sin; you say it is not. We both can't be right. One of us has the truth and one of us doesn't. Truth is in possession; one can't speak the truth if one doesn't have it. Truth is also consistent. If I have the truth on this, if I am right, then you haven't got the truth and you are wrong.

Homosexuality has always been a sexual behavior, not a condition. To say homosexuality is a condition is buying into the term invented by talented sophists of the homosexual "rights" movement.

It doesn't bother me, and it shouldn't bother anyone...

"Where Is The Love?"

What's wrong with the world, mama
People livin' like they ain't got no mamas
I think the whole world addicted to the drama
Only attracted to things that'll bring you trauma
Overseas, yeah, we try to stop terrorism
But we still got terrorists here livin'
In the USA, the big CIA
The Bloods and The Crips and the KKK
But if you only have love for your own race
Then you only leave space to discriminate
And to discriminate only generates hate
And when you hate then you're bound to get irate, yeah
Madness is what you demonstrate
And that's exactly how anger works and operates
Man, you gotta have love just to set it straight
Take control of your mind and meditate
Let your soul gravitate to the love, y'all, y'all

People killin', people dyin'
Children hurt and you hear them cryin'
Can you practice what you preach
And would you turn the other cheek

Father, Father, Father help us
Send some guidance from above
'Cause people got me, got me questionin'
Where is the love (Love)

Where is the love (The love)
Where is the love (The love)
Where is the love
The love, the love

It just ain't the same, always unchanged
New days are strange, is the world insane
If love and peace is so strong
Why are there pieces of love that don't belong
Nations droppin' bombs
Chemical gasses fillin' lungs of little ones
With ongoin' sufferin' as the youth die young
So ask yourself is the lovin' really gone
So I could ask myself really what is goin' wrong
In this world that we livin' in people keep on givin'
in
Makin' wrong decisions, only visions of them dividends
Not respectin' each other, deny thy brother
A war is goin' on but the reason's undercover
The truth is kept secret, it's swept under the rug
If you never know truth then you never know love
Where's the love, y'all, come on (I don't know)
Where's the truth, y'all, come on (I don't know)
Where's the love, y'all

People killin', people dyin'
Children hurt and you hear them cryin'
Can you practice what you preach
And would you turn the other cheek

Father, Father, Father help us
Send some guidance from above
'Cause people got me, got me questionin'
Where is the love (Love)

Where is the love (The love)
Where is the love (The love)
Where is the love (The love)
Where is the love (The love)
Where is the love, the love, the love?

I feel the weight of the world on my shoulder
As I'm gettin' older, y'all, people gets colder
Most of us only care about money makin'
Selfishness got us followin' our wrong direction
Wrong information always shown by the media
Negative images is the main criteria
Infecting the young minds faster than bacteria
Kids wanna act like what they see in the cinema
Yo', whatever happened to the values of humanity
Whatever happened to the fairness in equality
Instead of spreading love we're spreading animosity
Lack of understanding, leading lives away from unity
That's the reason why sometimes I'm feelin' under
That's the reason why sometimes I'm feelin' down
There's no wonder why sometimes I'm feelin' under
Gotta keep my faith alive till love is found
Now ask yourself

Where is the love?
Where is the love?
Where is the love?
Where is the love?

Father, Father, Father help us
Send some guidance from above
'Cause people got me, got me questionin'
Where is the love?

Sing wit me y'all:
One world, one world (We only got)
One world, one world (That's all we got)
One world, one world
And something's wrong wit it (Yeah)
Something's wrong wit it (Yeah)
Something's wrong wit the wo-wo-world, yeah
We only got
(One world, one world)
That's all we got
(One world, one world)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJpyskHMwRs

Please leave your bigotry at the door.

Peace Out Everyone!

He did.

He was rejected, and killed just like the prophets sent before him.

He is still being rejected today. Nothing's changed.

I believe there are SPIRITUAL laws as well.

Now, you may reject that, PB, but come on...IF I am right and there ARE spiritual laws do you REALLY think God's going to let you off the hook just because you didn't WANT them to be there?

I believe God's spiritual truths are as real as any physical truths we know. Only the consequences of ignoring them are more dire.

Me too. Gid #208 is very insightful.

It's known as the Natural Law..which is simply the eternal law of GOd as it is known to all men.

It's natural because it's part of the very constitution of things as created by God specifically with respect to mankind becasue its part and parcel of his nature. It can't be separated from his identity as a human being and that's why St.Paul says it is written on our heart, that is, becasue it is intrinsic to him, it springs up out of the innermost recesses of his being as a rational creature.




Yes, for sure.

Just as man has knowledge of the eternal law expressed in the physical laws of nature, as governing his material being, he also has knowledge of the eternal law of God as it governs him as a spiritual being, as a rational being with an eternal destiny.

Good stuff.

Again, you say it is a sin according to your religious beliefs. I am not basing my statement on any code of beliefs but on the fact I believe EVERYONE has a right to live as they see fit (and I'm not talking in some amoral, hedonistic way either).



Oh, really? I could as easily say you're 'buying into' the writings in a book written many centuries before there was any real understanding of the human conditions, in its myriad forms.

And that takes me back to saying there is only one truth and only one of us has the truth. You've correctly identified that mine is based upon absolute truth...that is upon God's law, now...

Regarding homosexuality as behavior vs condition, OF COURSE you are basing your stated belief on something...think about it...it's based upon man's truth which is as arbitrary. Yet, truth is consistent not arbitrary.