I wouldn't feel any different. Unless what they do interfare with me. One man, who is an Atheist, going into a court of a law to demand that the words "under god" be taken out of something that has been around for a long time, even though the two words themselves were only added in the 1980's, does interfare with my rights when he doesn't want them utttered publicly.

You would be fine if the pledged said "one nation under allah"? For some reason I doubt that...you see, the point is when schools use the words "Under God" in the pledge--they are interfering with those who don't believe.

You can still utter them publicly--but the state (ie schools) can't force anyone else to.

Here is the rationale behind the original ruling in 2002:

"The Pledge, as currently codified, is an impermissible government endorsement of religion because it sends a message to unbelievers 'that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community.'...To recite the Pledge is not to describe the United States; instead it is to swear allegiance to the values for which the flag stands: unity, indivisibility, liberty, justice and -- since 1954 -- monotheism.

But more importantly, this isn't a new thing. Compelling students to recite the pledge was found to be a first amendment violation in 1943 (West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette)

I agree with what a LOT of comments here, and I thank those that consider themselves atheists for helping to define what I have a hard time putting into words. I get most frustrated when I'm lumped into a large group, especially when there's negative connotations associated with the group. As a "quiet atheist" I would say that I am like many MANY atheists that comprise a "Silent Majority." Most atheists are not militant anti-theists.

By internal resources, I mean that I live my life to be good to the people around me without needing god to act as a middle man. There's one less step, and thus being good is more instinctive to me because I do it for the sake of being good, not for fear of going to hell.

In reality I think very, very little about god, religion, and my lack thereof. I don't hate those who choose religion and in fact envy them sometimes their ability to assign some of the trials of life to their god. After a death last year, the people around me cried and then took solace that the deceased was in the hands of their deity, while I cried and began the process of accepting that the deceased was gone, in all senses. It is harder my way, I think. But that is the way I choose, it is what I believe.

I'm an atheist (well agnostic anyway) and could care less whether people believe in God or not. 

Such generalizations are really pointless. The issue could be reversed with broad generalizations of Christians.

This is a bit off the topic, but "Atheist" is such a horrible sounding word...might be part of the reason they are looked at with disdain. Maybe someone can come up with a better one?

Just to add my two cents in...I believe in God, but cannot stand when someone preaches their beliefs at me. I don't think one has to go around saying you will go to hell if you don't accept Christ in your life. I think people should show their love for God by living a good, honest life and by contributing to the world.

I had a bad experience once...I was at a downtown bus stop when two women came up to me and started preaching. I respectfully listened to what they had to say. However, when they asked me to hold hands with them to say a prayer, I politely turned them down. They looked at me and lectured me as if I was the worst Christian in the world. I resented them for that. They had no right to make me feel like I was a horrible person.

On the flip side, I also hate when a non believer rants on and on about how ignorant and close minded god fearing people are. I agree with what someone else said here: they are just as bad as the extreme Christians.

It isn't a fuss about things that represent God -- we're not a nasty cabal of Atheists looking to tear down your churches or shutter the Vatican. We just tend to have a great deal of respect for that 1st Ammendment, and it pretty much says that our government shouldn't be in the religion business. Sing your songs, doesn't bother me. Just don't do it on the State's time.

Your articles and opinions would state otherwise. Your crusade has always been to ridicule theists, mostly Christian of course. However, I agree with your statement in that most atheists do not fear or hate God.

Let me first thank all of you who responded and who explained to me what being an Atheist means to them. Let me also say that when I wrote this article it wasn't meant as an insult or to be a generalization of who you are or what you believed in, only as an enquiry (curiosity) since I do not know. I've always been aware of the termonology Atheist, I've never known anyone who was one. Neither an Agnostic, as I said previously, I've never heard the term either. Chalk it down to my ignorance on not knowing everything about other religions/beliefs in general. I am aware that there are other religions and practices out there, I respect everyone's right to believe what they do and I would never force anyone to conform to my way of thinking ever.

I had just read the news about the gentleman who won this landmark decision in court and how happy he was to finally win because he's been sueing about this for a long time now.

When I read that it made me wonder why he did what he did. Of course the article didn't go into details about him or his beliefs or practice, just a blurb under his picture showing how happy he was. It made me wonder why he did it and what was the point of him doing it. Then it also made me think about that here is someone who doesn't believe in the existence of God, that's fine, but what does he get out of going to court over words that mention God. Was he afraid I wondered? Hence my article.

So for those of you who took offense of my question about fear, perhaps I should have put it a different way. I wanted to understand what the belief of a person who didn't believe represented to them and Tex explained that quite clearly to me, thanks again Tex. This wasn't meant as an attack or generalization or taken lightly just another quest for knowledge of what I didn't know about. I'm like that at times and sometimes I don't put my words as eloquently as I like to believe I am.

That said, I understand a little more.

I had a friend of mine ask me yesterday if I went to church and why I didn't. This was someone who is a Christian too, a Catholic by faith. I explained to her why I don't go to church and she didn't understand what I told her. She didn't understand that I didn't need to go to church to fellowship with others to prove that I believed in God or that I was a Christian. I have no specific church that I attend I told her. I go to any church I feel like going that doesn't means I don't believe in God. I still read my bible, pray and shared my beliefs with others. I don't go around preaching or even just speaking to anyone just like that; and I don't have to sit in a building to prove what I am.

I didn't take offense at her questioning or what she thought of me. Really, she didn't understand and I explained to her my point of view.

I do know how people who claim to be Christians can be. They can be the most unforgiving kind of people. I've met a few of those. They can be fanatics and no matter what you say or do, unless it's the way they like, you'll never be right. I've met a few of those too. I've worshipped with people who are Pentecostal, Baptists, Anglican, Seventh Day Adventist, Catholic, Church of Christ, Church of God; although all are of the same faith, everyone thinks differently. My favorite church was one that was Non-Denominational because there wasn't so much pressure to conform to what everyone else beleived. We had one purpose to worship God and fellowship together.

I'm not exactly the poster child of my faith, nor am I trying to be and I certainly would be objected to by those who say we are of the same faith.

I'm strong in my belief in God the father, his son and the holy spirits. I'm a child of his and so are all of you. I'm glad you know who you are and what your beliefs are. We don't all have to believe in the same thing.

Definition of a good Christian:

Someone who goes to church every Sunday to show off their new clothes or jewelry.

A Good Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ, and leads a good life, providing for others a living breathing example of God's love and majesty. This tends to however fly in the face of what churches try to pull off. A Church is the political spin wrapped around a faith. You don't need a church to be a Christian or know God... Many confuse going to church with being a Christian.

I get tired of being told that as an atheist I "hate" or "fear" God (or gods or goddess). "Hating" God, to me, would be like hating Santa Claus for not bringing me a new Porsche for Christmas -- makes no sense, because it's silly to hate that which does not exist. "Fear" is in the same category. I should fear God as much as I fear the Wolfman -- something that doesn't exist.

That right there made me smile. Thanks. Love the Santa Claus/Porsche part. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I think I'm out of insightfuls for today, but I'll try.

It isn't a fuss about things that represent God -- we're not a nasty cabal of Atheists looking to tear down your churches or shutter the Vatican. We just tend to have a great deal of respect for that 1st Ammendment, and it pretty much says that our government shouldn't be in the religion business. Sing your songs, doesn't bother me. Just don't do it on the State's time.

I'm going to agree. I don't think that there is a pack of rabid athiests out there just looking to tear religious people to shreds because they hate/fear them. I think that they just want to make sure that their rights are not being eclipsed. The children being brought up athiest are being told, in no uncertain terms, that they are to either recite the pledge as is and thus proclaim something that is not true, OR, omit the words and say an incomplete pledge that can be held against you in the schoolyards, and just about any other social arena, of life.

Something I wrote elsewhere that I'll cut and paste here -

Imagine if a child went home and told his parents that the boy/girl next to him/her left the words out. And now imagine that the family is a deeply religious Christian family that has no warm feelings for athiests. I know, this is a stretch, right? I mean all Christians love their neighbors, right? Regardless of their religious affiliations or lack thereof. But bear with me for just a moment and go on a ride with your imagination. Just suppose, that under the most unlikely of circumstances, this religious family actually responds to their child's report with something along the lines of "Well, I don't want you to be friends with that heathen". I know, this is something that would probably only happen in the Twilight Zone and all, but this is my imagination train, so please ride it out to the final station. What happens when that child goes back to school and tells all the other kids (who also live in this kooky dimension and have similar mind sets about non-Christians) about what his/her parents told them.

All atheists, heretics and agnostics will be crushed.

All atheists, heretics and agnostics will be crushed.

Definition of a good Christian:Someone who goes to church every Sunday to show off their new clothes or jewelry.

It's not a fair definition at all but I do see where you're coming from with this! There are some sharp dressers out there!

The children being brought up athiest are being told, in no uncertain terms, that they are to either recite the pledge as is and thus proclaim something that is not true, OR, omit the words and say an incomplete pledge that can be held against you in the schoolyards, and just about any other social arena, of life.

Don't you think a child will get confuse by this? If the parents are non-believers, most times the child is taught to be as well, however the good thing would be is to let the child make that choice, IMO.

Reply By: God(Anonymous User)Posted: Friday, September 16, 2005All atheists, heretics and agnostics will be crushed.

You're a troll and not honest enough to come out of hiding and say something sensible!

Dobule post

Don't you think a child will get confuse by this? If the parents are non-believers, most times the child is taught to be as well, however the good thing would be is to let the child make that choice, IMO.

Again, though, what choice is better? Here is the full, official pledge with the two words. Omit them and risk being ostracized (sp?) or speak them, even if you don't believe them or aren't sure what to believe.

Or, leave the words out of the official pledge and allow them the choice to add them in at their discretion, if they so desire and/or believe.

If the parents are believers, they may very well teach their child to add the words in. If the child decides to grow up athiest (or agnostic, or whatever), they can then choose to omit the words and still say the full, official pledge. If athiest (or whatever) parents teach their children the pledge without the two extra words, it is within reality to believe that if the child should find God (in whatever form), they will also find the two extra words and, again, add them in at their own discretion.

My point is, if the two words are left in, you leave some people saying a pledge that they either do not truly mean, or they say an unofficial, less than complete pledge.

Omit them and risk being ostracized (sp?)

It looks ok to me.

If the parents are believers, they may very well teach their child to add the words in. If the child decides to grow up athiest (or agnostic, or whatever), they can then choose to omit the words and still say the full, official pledge. If athiest (or whatever) parents teach their children the pledge without the two extra words, it is within reality to believe that if the child should find God (in whatever form), they will also find the two extra words and, again, add them in at their own discretion.

Yes you're right, the parent will teach the child to believe what they do. In my last comment about the child being confused, what I should have clarify (made more clear with my response) was that the child might be confused as to why he's not suppose to say the Pledge with or without the word God. Being that he/she has been taught by the parents from they are young about what the parents believed, if he/she still is pretty young, are they old enough to make that decision as to why they are not to say the Pledge or the words? Probably not if that child is too young to fully grasp it all.