Have We Become too Internet Savvy?

The gap between generations

Published on August 24, 2005 By foreverserenity In Internet

There seems to be a great divide in our technology friendly world. What, you might ask am I talking about now? I’m talking about that chasm that is opening up between my generation (the 30 and over crowd) and Generation “X” and Generation “Now”.

That penchant for our younger folks to just Google anything they want to learn about (and us too). Not too many folks read to obtain information anymore. Mention a word, a phrase or a name it’s off to Googleland to find out any and all information we may need.

While I’m not saying the Internet is bad, not at all! I for one applaud the use of the Internet and what it has done for humankind all over! What worries me is with the “X” and the “Now” generations, when it comes to learning and connecting with the history of any given subject and acquiring and being able to analyze information about a particular subject, they don’t know how to do that.

How do they develop the necessary skills that will teach them how to do research and explore the different methods and ideas on what to do to get the information they need other than going on the Internet? Does anyone remember Microfiche? Or those big ole books called Encyclopedias? Or Microfilm? Or Catalogs?

The other day I gave my son a lesson on how to search for something at the Library. He was shocked to learn that going on the Internet is not the only way to obtain information. The Library has a wide assortment of ways for you to obtain information. They do have computers and Internet access because they have to get with the times, i.e., with what everyone else is doing.

However, before computers there were a Reference section, Catalogs, and Microfiches or Microfilms searches available (although there are no more at least at our branch library). They do have another kind of search too. You can sit at this antiquated computer-looking type machine that has a telephone attached and speak to someone on the other end. You see the person you’re speaking to and they see you!

What I’m trying to get at though is that many students these days are finding the quickest route in doing their assignments. They cut and paste information from the Internet. Never mind that sometimes this may lead to plagiarism but how do they learn about a particular subject if this is all they do? Can they give thorough and accurate information on what they have done? Or correctly list the source of their information without siting a webpage?

What about that thirst for learning and the knowledge gain because of the paper you have to write on any subject that you might be assigned. You become so enrapt by the information that you’ve read about. You analyze and ask questions of your parents, teacher or peers. You learn to develop strategies in putting together a presentation for your teacher and are able to tell the history of what you’re seeking. You learn how to put sentences together to make an essay, to write knowledgeably about a topic. You learn new words, how to spell them and learn what they mean. You learn a lot by using other methods to do your research and not only by using the Internet.

While using the Internet is very helpful and might be a quicker way find what you seek (and there’s nothing wrong with that). However, let’s not forget that there are books out there to be read, information to be analyzed and skills to be learned if we take the time to do it.

Comments (Page 2)

ParaTed2k

on Aug 24, 2005

Just a thought...

I've previously suggested that the holy trinity of western culture is Comfort, Convenience and Sex. Whether it is for education, informaton or entertainment, the internet is the perfect homage to that trinity. ;~D

Reppiks

on Aug 24, 2005

Many good points are being made, for both sides of the subject. One of the great advantages of the web is that all of us that have ingaged in this exchange, being many miles apart, most not even knowing each other, have been sharing ideas and views. Wow, what a concept.
The only point I'd like to clear myself on is my statement of how we used to do things. I wouldn't want to have to "set type", it's not easy. My point was the talent, and years of experience that was needed to make a professional document was a reflection on the talent of a professional, dedicated to their trade. In todays computer, a similar document can be pushed out of a text program with little knowledge of the printing process. I belive this kind of person was called an artisan! Not putting anyone down for using todays technology, more of a statement of admiration of those that could create great things with their minds and crude implements instead of an electronic marvel called the computer.

starkers

on Aug 25, 2005

Why bother having a teacher

Because a computer has no passion or desire to teach...nor the interpreting skills of a teacher, who uses 'human' logic to decipher the improbable questions of enquiring minds. The computer should only ever be an educational supplement and never be seen as a replacement for books and/or other hands-on teaching resources that require interaction between teachers and students. Sadly, however, the modern trend seems to be moving away from conventional teaching methods and more towards leaving students to their own devices on computer based learning.

When I went to school we had no computers or calculators to source information and easy answers to mathematical problems. Rather, we had teachers who had a passion for their subjects and saw it as a duty to share their knowledge and instil in us a desire to learn. I had several teachers who would become quite animated to help make lessons more enjoyable and interesting for us, so I never went home from school square-eyed and feeling numb because I'd been sat in front of a computer for hours on end. Those sure were the days.....

Of course there are still teachers who have passion for their chosen subjects and teaching; who are willing to discuss topics rather than computerise, but the convenience of computers and the internet has more and more of them becoming redundant or an endangered species. Yes, computers have a place in modern education, but teacher skills and human interaction, books and hands on resources must always have a place also.

Leauki

on Aug 25, 2005

"That penchant for our younger folks to just Google anything they want to learn about (and us too). Not too many folks read to obtain information anymore. Mention a word, a phrase or a name it’s off to Googleland to find out any and all information we may need."

Hm... using Google to find an article and then getting the information one wants from that article IS reading.

Google and the Internet just too the peripheral work out of reading. No longer is knowledge restricted to those who have access to a good library. It is not that folks don't read any more, what we fear is that they now can.

Demon-Machine

on Aug 25, 2005

I just want to say that I am in high school. I use the computer all the time, and I know that the internet is an endless source of information. It is here to stay, and complaining won't make it go away. Now, as to why the internet does not really help kids learn as much, I think it is because it is just too fast. In an encyclopedia, you go to the library, read the article, copy down relevant information, then start writing your own project. You actually worked to get the information, and therefore you remember it. With the internet it is much more probable that you found the information right away, and then just wrote your essay right there (or maybe even copied and pasted). There is a reason teachers make you write notes and read from books, and that is because it works, and makes you learn. The internet just makes all of this too easy, and so the importance of the information just doesn't hit home.

This is just my experience since I am in high-school, and hear about how other teenagers do projects, and see how they lookup information.

Oh, and a couple more plain and simple facts. If the person finds information and just copies and pastes, well they are stupid. Period. If you find info, read all of it, you will learn a lot. And to anyone who says teachers are important because they have a passion for teaching... I'm sorry no, but there are very few good teachers nowadays. Especially in high-school and public school. And I am sure you all love your jobs with a passion right? Teachers are there to answer questions, and give aid when someone doesn't understand.

stubbyfinger

on Aug 25, 2005

The only drawback I can see for students is the increase in plagiarism. 60 minutes had a special on this problem a while back. Some schools even have special software that cross-references student’s homework with search engines to look for paragraph or sentence matches.

ParaTed2k

on Aug 25, 2005

The other problem with plagiarism is when teachers catch kids at it, but for political reasons are prevented to fail the kids for cheating. I'm sure it doesn't happen a lot, but we've all heard the news stories about it. Hopefully, like many things, it only makes the news because it's still so rare.

foreverserenity

on Aug 25, 2005

A lot of it has to do with convenance. If you had some homework or an assignment to do, and you had to get some research or information, would you rather just sit down in front of your computer, OR get ready, drive (or walk) to the library, then find the book you're looking for and then drive back home. It's all a matter of convenance. I can honestly say that there is a very strong chance that I will never step into a library again. The internet has everything you could possible find PLUS more, than what a library has to offer. There's just no need to go to the library anymore.Librarys are just a thing of the past.

Oh no...say it ain't so! G2584...let me guess Generation X? (I'm just trying to figure which group you belong to) The library is such a wealth of information, I would garner a lot more than the internet has to offer. OK, so the Internet is faster and moves at the pace a lot of folks seem to do everything these days, superfast. However, I bet you if you go to the Library, since you haven't been in a long time by the sound of it, you'ld be surprised at what you find. They now offer a wide assortment of DVD's and yep, the latest too, VHS (althought antiquated to some) and CDs. There are even comic books. I recently read a comic book I borrowed that told me the history of how Wolverine came about. Yep, you guessed it, the Xman's Wolverine (I love stuff like that). My son and I enjoyed that.

The library offers so much in the form of education and entertainment that I'm sorry to say you're missing out on. You don't even have to subscribe to your favourite magazine because there's a chance that your local library may carry it. Take a chance and check it out!

knew I was in trouble the first time I was reading a novel and came across a character who had appeared before but I couldn't remember where, so I (mentally) just reached for the search key...And it's not just computers, it's media in general. I find myself reaching the end of a session of reading, usually fiction, and before I'm ready to put the book down, I very often now flip ahead randomly and just read little bits. I pondered why I could be indulging in this behavior, and I eventually got it - it's exactly like the previews of next week's episode on some tv show!

I can relate to you with this Mountaindragon. I've done it before too. But then realized where's the joy in reading at all, right? You missed out on the nuances of whatever it was you were reading and enjoying before you skipped ahead because you were in a hurry. I think our technology is fantastic and is very useful but we're short changing ourselves when we don't take the time to really enjoy what you're doing. I don't do that anymore though cause it totally spoils it for me!

am often pretty rough on teachers, so I welcome this chance to praise a few. All of the teachers my kids have had only allow 1 or 2 references from the internet on research and writing assignments. The kids complain but as you point out, it is still important for kids to know that there is a world beyond cyberspace!

This is true. My kids teachers do this too. You see how smart they are!

The biggest threat to education and learning that I can see from any technology is when it is allowed to destroy automaticity (otherwise known as "second nature) in learning new information or actions.

Quite true Ted. Not just that but being intuitive and learning how to deduce and conclude.

Here's something from the opposite side of the coin. While I don't disagree with some of the points above, I think that the internet can be an incredible bonus in places that don't have a library or have poor library resources. And there are many of those.

Momijiki, this is definately true. That's why I also don't totally disapprove of the Internet, not at all. I just find that we're becoming so dependent on it, especially the younger generations, we're losing something else too.

Students are taught to evaluate the credibility of the knowledge on the internet. Is it a good source? Who wrote it? When was it last updated?How do you footnote or reference your sources from the internet? Students get that, too.

And this is good. In this manner they do learn but who points this out to them if they don't have someone to teach it to them, to let them become aware of it? Some students won't notice this or get to it on their own.

Of course students need to learn to use an index, use an encyclopedia and learn how to take information from primary sources.

My thoughts exactly!

And as far as plagarism goes, I have caught almost every student who has plagiarized from the internet. Not only does internet make it easy for students to plagiarize, it makes it way easier to catch students. Generally, you just have to google a suspicious phrase.

Some folks have yet to figure out that this is so easy to find out!

Sorry, to be short, but gotta go to school.

That's alright you made some valid points!

Being the parent of a 15 year old who's been brought up with computers in school before we got one at home, I get the feeling you may have missed one aspect of the information gathering.The teachers are quite open to getting your information from the internet, but reports and such have to be original from the student, credit given where the source information came from and proper credit to the original author. As with many things, micro film, eight-track, and even cassett tape will certanly vanish, just as we don't see many stone tablets being used these days. Ink and paper were faster than hammer and chisel, computers are faster and far more convienent than scheduling a trip to the library, trying to find a piece of information that could be in any number of catagories like and encyplopedia, an archived newspaper from 1945 etc.

I have a 16 year old at home as well. 90 percent of the time when she's doing research, the Internet happens to be one of the places she checks. However, she also checks her encyclopedias and we go to the library to find other sources. Because has Ted pointed out, the teachers won't allow more than possibly two citation (and I spelt that word wrong above) from the Internet.

I am also extremely aware that we can't stay in ancient times and we do have to progress and move forward. Notice if you re-read my article that I mentioned that a couple of times, how good the Internet is. This isn't a bash the Internet blog. It's an observation that perhaps our younger generation is using the Internet as their only tool for doing assignments and such. That some actually don't open a book unless they have to, or refuse to. Note G2584 reply above. Libraries are outdated to him/her.

There is much that us older generations cherish and don't want to see go by the wayside like the talent of a type-setter in a printshop, the artist that converts paint and ink into an image that can be put into a magazine or book.

Being born in the year 1965, I've been one of those who applaud change and still do. Progress is here and will always be here because we humans will always seek bigger, better, stronger and faster. However, like you, there are some things that I hope never fade with time, or because of society's technological progress, I hope they only get better. And Reppiks we both of to move with it (time), as fast as our "old" bones will carry us! : )

Mmmm! There's nothing like the smell of a brand new leather bound book when opening it for the first time! And even those (leather bound books) are difficult to come by now-a-days. I like to go to this very old bookstore up in Wells, Maine that has rooms upon rooms filled wall to wall, from floor to ceiling, millions of old and used books. Just as special as buying a brand new book, is opening a book that has been read by a mysterious someone who considers the experience as genuine as I.

Absolutely 47song! There's nothing like this, except the interior of a brand new car of course,

! I hear ya though and I understand!

will agree with you foreverserenity,even if i am part of generation "X" (now 21),but as i see the net is not a really valid source of info exactly because there is no control over it. I study history and archaelogy at university,but whenever i have an essay or a project to do i won't find refuge to a PC. My common procedure is to use it as a research tool for finding books in libraries of my university or any other available library. I don't trust net-cyclopaedias exactly because noone controls them (like Wikipedia). Au contraire i do like to read books and as i may say,even after Sony or any other company lets out to the wide public electronic paper and paper-thin screens (i think it's planned to be released in 2008),i won't give in any of my books!Nothing can compete the smell and touch of old paper.

Thank you Cyberworld! This is exactly what students should use it to do when doing research. The Internet is very helpful in this way. I would be the first to say that I prefer to watch movies sometimes than reading the book. But there's nothing like reading the book because there's always something that the movie will have missed. Books will be around for a long time. (I hope so anyway!)

Don't forget that microfilm and microfiche were once considered the heighth of technology. Computerization is just the latest ste

This is true!

I still feel that nothing replaces a good book, though I've been reading more e-books lately.

I hope not too. And I'm a subscriber to an E-book club (through the Library) the only difference with this one is we (the subscribers) don't get the entire book to read online, only a portion. We can have the book sent to us if we choose to or go to the library to get it ourself! I've built up quite a "to be read" list because of this!

My two kids (10 and 13) still prefer paper books to e-books. Our trips to the library are looked forward to.

My three too. Even my 16 year old! Infact even their dad goes with us so he can review magazines he loves and look at books with animals and get his favorite music. So we all love doing it no matter what our schedule is we always spend a couple of hours at the libary on saturdays!

Reppik, I've worked in printing for the last 20 years. The internet has cut into the print market somewhat, but ink on paper is alive and well. It's just all digital now. I used to strip negatives and cut color masks, make the shrinks and spreads. Man am I glad for Photoshop!My knees and back certainly don't miss standing hunched over a light table for endless hours.Progress may make us long for simpler times, but it's just the natural progression of things.

Quite a difference uh?! I like that we have progressed and of course this is all good.

Why bother having a teacher. Just put a computer on every students dek. I know that's the best way to do it because I've seen it in action. The "brilliant" guy that tried for four hours to put a video card in my computer. He didn't look to see how it was done, he just got the info off the net, by the way he is one of "Geek Squad". He couldn't do it. Four hours later, I told him to just put it back together, give me my $250, and when the warranty ran out I would do it myself. That's what I ended up doing. He didn't have sence enough to tie his own shoes (unless he lookedd on the computer to see how to do it). This is the most intelligent article I have seen> if other people would get there nose out of the computer and into the real world, I think things "might" get a little better. A hard learned lesson stays with you. Alesson on the computer is gone when you turn it off. Bravo to foreverserenity For this article.

Wow Hippie, for a minute there I thought you were slamming the teacher but I see you're being sarcastic! And thank you so much for your kind words. A lesson learned and knowing how to and having "it" stay with you is the point of this article. Thanks!

learned how to play guitar and a few other things on the internet. However, I'm pretty sure the folks concerned were glad I didn't learn Paramedicine, Parachute Rigging or Search & Rescue online. ;

Ted, you got that right! I don't think your patients would be too happy to hear you learned your skills from the Internet!

know of a local college where the faculty still encourage book research over web research. Paragraphs describing credibility and plagiarism are in every syllabi. There is an inverse relationship that is exercised here, as well. The more web-based sources being cited in a persons assignment, the lower their overall grade would become. Yeah, there may be computers all over the campus, but for a good majority of the classes, someone is better off not going to the web for research. This may be an easier and faster method, but it doesnt imply an easy or fast "A". You will see students on computers all the time...but, you will also see them reading and doing research in the other parts of the library.

This is great trilogy! I'm glad this is still being done. There's so much more gained from this type of experience.

Just a thought...I've previously suggested that the holy trinity of western culture is Comfort, Convenience and Sex. Whether it is for education, informaton or entertainment, the internet is the perfect homage to that trinity.

Ah Ted, an interesting thought and one that is pretty much true of men. Noticed I said men! (hahaha) OK, of course the Internet would be used for things such as this. It even makes it more readily available!

Yes they are. I'm glad, and I'm learning even more from this discussion that many folks do think the way I do and got the point I was trying to make. Thanks to all of you! And of course let me reiterate, we're all miles apart, what a concept!

The only point I'd like to clear myself on is my statement of how we used to do things. I wouldn't want to have to "set type", it's not easy. My point was the talent, and years of experience that was needed to make a professional document was a reflection on the talent of a professional, dedicated to their trade. In todays computer, a similar document can be pushed out of a text program with little knowledge of the printing process. I belive this kind of person was called an artisan! Not putting anyone down for using todays technology, more of a statement of admiration of those that could create great things with their minds and crude implements instead of an electronic marvel called the computer.

Thanks for making your points clear. I hope my response above wasn't too harsh but I wanted to bring my points across to you as well.

Just a note Starkers, he was being sarcastic in the beginning of his response, however I see your points are valid too.

When I went to school we had no computers or calculators to source information and easy answers to mathematical problems. Rather, we had teachers who had a passion for their subjects and saw it as a duty to share their knowledge and instil in us a desire to learn. I had several teachers who would become quite animated to help make lessons more enjoyable and interesting for us, so I never went home from school square-eyed and feeling numb because I'd been sat in front of a computer for hours on end. Those sure were the days.....Of course there are still teachers who have passion for their chosen subjects and teaching; who are willing to discuss topics rather than computerise, but the convenience of computers and the internet has more and more of them becoming redundant or an endangered species. Yes, computers have a place in modern education, but teacher skills and human interaction, books and hands on resources must always have a place also.

I was about to point out that there are still good teachers out there who really cared....then I read your second paragraph!

We can only hope that there will be room for all of this in the future!

Hm... using Google to find an article and then getting the information one wants from that article IS reading.

Yes...it is. The point here wasn't about reading, rather it was about our inclination to go to the computer and hit the search button instead of going to the encyclopedia.

No longer is knowledge restricted to those who have access to a good library. It is not that folks don't read any more, what we fear is that they now can.

I think you're missing the point Andrew. The point I was trying to make is....please re-read everyone's response above or else I will be repeating myself. And I'm not trying to be facetious.

foreverserenity

on Aug 25, 2005

just want to say that I am in high school. I use the computer all the time, and I know that the internet is an endless source of information. It is here to stay, and complaining won't make it go away. Now, as to why the internet does not really help kids learn as much, I think it is because it is just too fast. In an encyclopedia, you go to the library, read the article, copy down relevant information, then start writing your own project. You actually worked to get the information, and therefore you remember it. With the internet it is much more probable that you found the information right away, and then just wrote your essay right there (or maybe even copied and pasted). There is a reason teachers make you write notes and read from books, and that is because it works, and makes you learn. The internet just makes all of this too easy, and so the importance of the information just doesn't hit home.

You got it Demon! Exactly what I'm talking about.

If the person finds information and just copies and pastes, well they are stupid. Period. If you find info, read all of it, you will learn a lot.

Glad to hear this from a high schooler. But not too many of you realise it.

And to anyone who says teachers are important because they have a passion for teaching... I'm sorry no, but there are very few good teachers nowadays. Especially in high-school and public school. And I am sure you all love your jobs with a passion right? Teachers are there to answer questions, and give aid when someone doesn't understand.

Unfortunately there are some teachers out there who are not too interested in the craft of teaching anymore and that's when this become really bad for the teacher and bad for the students. But as an ex-teacher myself (a long time ago!) there are really, really good teachers out there who care about their students and what they do. And they do deserve credit for being in a profession that is one of the hardest and can be one of the most ungrateful job around. I'm sorry if you haven't had any really good teachers throughout your schooling. Hopefully you will have one and will see what a treasure they are. It's unfortunate that it only takes one "bad apple" to spoil the whole bunch -so to speak! Thanks for your input Demon!

Yes, I've heard about this software program. And remember watching the featured program too.

Unfortunately it's becoming a widespread problem Ted. And like you said, the teachers don't always get to fail the kids who do this. One can only hope that kids and anyone who does it, do get the message that it is wrong.

NightTrainthedark

on Aug 25, 2005

Some schools even have special software that cross-references student’s homework with search engines to look for paragraph or sentence matches.

I have a guy working for me this year because he was kicked out of Harvard for plagiarism. He admits to copying 1 sentence from another source but the software picked it up. He can go back next year after working for 1 year. He is a standout Soccer player and that is probably the only reason he is allowed back next year.

foreverserenity

on Aug 25, 2005

Wow! So one sentence was all he did? And he works off his "crime"? Or he's banned from school for one year so he works until then?

NightTrainthedark

on Aug 25, 2005

Banned for 1 year. He has to work and show proof that he worked 10 months out of the year.

foreverserenity

on Aug 25, 2005

Banned for 1 year. He has to work and show proof that he worked 10 months out of the year.

I guess he's lucky then. I won't make any assumptions but at least now he realises how vigilant he has to be when he writes his papers.

Shovelheat

on Aug 26, 2005

I think so, foreverserenity! Link

GreenReaper

on Aug 26, 2005

I have a question to ask: Why learn the information, anyway? Isn't it just as good to know where to find it? There's a lot of information out there that isn't all that important - you just need to know it once and then forget it. If you need it again, you can look it up again. I would suggest that generation X (and those before them) have an emphasis on learning precisely because it was harder to look things up quickly. You learnt things because you had to do some things really quickly to do your job, and there wasn't any other way to have this information on hand. Nowadays, is that truly the case?

I'm aware that there are cases in which information does need to be kept on hand, but nowadays there's just too much that we have to know. If you had to go to a library to read about it, then, well, that's just too slow. Best to look it up and do the job, even if you have to look it up again later (at which point you might set a bookmark

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