I think so, foreverserenity

hahahaha....is that you shovel?! If it is you're toooo much! OK. click, click...you're right is so darn easy!

hahahaha....is that you shovel?!

'fraid it ain't me! It's Boomhauer from King of the Hill...

have a question to ask: Why learn the information, anyway? Isn't it just as good to know where to find it? There's a lot of information out there that isn't important - you just need to know it once and then forget it. If you need it again, you can look it up again. I would suggest that generation X (and those before them) have an emphasis on learning precisely because it is harder to look things up quickly. You learn things because you have to, to do your job. Nowadays, is that truly the case?I'm aware that there are cases in which information does need to be kept on hand, but nowadays there's just too much that we have to know. If you had to go to a library to read about it, then, well, that's just too slow. Best to look it up and do the job, even if you have to look it up again later (at which point you might set a bookmark ).

Well we learn it because it is important to do so in the first place, right?! Otherwise we don't. We repeat ourselves a lot in most situation. At some point in everone's life information they have learned from their childhood or as they grow up is retained and becomes useful again. Knowing how to obtain information is good and there's nothing wrong with using the internet to do this, not at all. I'm just saying this isn't the only way. It might take longer to look inside of a book, yes, but sometimes you would be surprised some of the other stuff you learn at the same time.

Because a computer has no passion or desire to teach...nor the interpreting skills of a teacher, who uses 'human' logic to decipher the improbable questions of enquiring minds. The computer should only ever be an educational supplement and never be seen as a replacement for books and/or other hands-on teaching resources that require interaction between teachers and students

A hard learned lesson stays with you. Alesson on the computer is gone when you turn it off.

Now, as to why the internet does not really help kids learn as much, I think it is because it is just too fast. In an encyclopedia, you go to the library, read the article, copy down relevant information, then start writing your own project. You actually worked to get the information, and therefore you remember it. With the internet it is much more probable that you found the information right away, and then just wrote your essay right there (or maybe even copied and pasted). There is a reason teachers make you write notes and read from books, and that is because it works, and makes you learn. The internet just makes all of this too easy, and so the importance of the information just doesn't hit home.

If you look back at some of these responses you'll see the answer to your questions. I've even re-quoted some of them that I think are relevant to what you ask.

I know the internet is faster but for kids today, learning to write and knowing what to write is very important. It helps their speech, spelling and understanding of what they are told and what they hear. That's all pretty important don't you think?

People who complain about the net...as an info/education source are just jealous of the modern kid's options.

I would have 'killed' for the same accessibility to 'knowledge'....

But then I would have 'killed' to have a calculator....and not learn to do long division in my head.

Instead it was slide-rules and logarythmic tables on the back cover of the exercise books.

Oh yes...and we learned the first 30 or so elements in order......Hydrogen, Helium, Lithium, berylium, boron, carbon, nitrogen...etc...

 

The ONLY real issue with the net is whether the info gleaned is factual or sheer bullshit....

Hydrogen, Helium, Lithium, berylium, boron, carbon, nitrogen...etc...

Lithium, that's the important one to remember.

T

The ONLY real issue with the net is whether the info gleaned is factual or sheer bullshit...

True, Jafo, but even 'bullshit' is debatable!

And if you've been the victim of it... well, even that is a lesson learned!

People who complain about the net...as an info/education source are just jealous of the modern kid's options.

My green streak got decidedly narrower when I discovered the net for my own use

For me, the jealousy factor arises when I tell kids of today about my schoolday experiences...of teachers who went to great lengths to give practical demonstrations....whose presentations were not only informative but entertaining as well. "Geez, wish I had teachers like that!" is more often the response than not. The clear message I get is that teaching these days has become 'just a job' to some, and therefore, they have no passion for teaching and derive little or no pleasure from the experience....sad for them, sad for the kids.

Some teachers stuggle to even get up in the morning since the abolition of corporal punishment took away the only highlight of their day. Okay, that's an exaggeration, but I've recenty spoken with teachers displaying such lethargy and blase attitudes.....where's a rocket when you need one!

My stepdaughter stuggles in the conventional classroom because she also needs a hands on approach, not just computerised learning, so we enrolled her in an alternative learning program where she is flourishing rather than stagnating in, what was to her, the quagmire of an overly complicated environment. Computers are still a part of the school day, but only in conjunction with other methods and are not the primary tool, as was too often the case previously. Now she will pick up and read books, do homework with some enthusiasm, and never use the 'I'm sick' excuse to avoid going to school.

Kids are individuals too, with different interests and aptitudes, and the sooner educational authorities accept this fact the better. One size does not fit all, and an enforced curriculum or teaching method is not necessarily in the better interests of all students...in some cases, some flexibility is required.

Green Reaper:

I have a question to ask: Why learn the information, anyway? Isn't it just as good to know where to find it? There's a lot of information out there that isn't all that important - you just need to know it once and then forget it. If you need it again, you can look it up again. I would suggest that generation X (and those before them) have an emphasis on learning precisely because it was harder to look things up quickly. You learnt things because you had to do some things really quickly to do your job, and there wasn't any other way to have this information on hand. Nowadays, is that truly the case?

You make some decent points here. On the other hand, technology (which I'm all for) can become a crutch. How many of us have watched a cashier go into spasms when their cash register total wasn't right, and they didn't know what to do?

Technology is great, and sometimes it just moves us beyond some of the old ways of doing things. However, if the new way takes the place of basic skills that are needed to build from, it is no longer a good thing.

Starkers:

For me, the jealousy factor arises when I tell kids of today about my schoolday experiences...of teachers who went to great lengths to give practical demonstrations....whose presentations were not only informative but entertaining as well. "Geez, wish I had teachers like that!" is more often the response than not. The clear message I get is that teaching these days has become 'just a job' to some, and therefore, they have no passion for teaching and derive little or no pleasure from the experience....sad for them, sad for the kids.

I called one of my kids' English teachers one time to discuss a concern I had because she showed an R rated version of "Romeo & Julliette" in class. What I got in return was a teacher making excuses about why watching the movie was a legitimate substitute for reading the story.

Technology is great, and sometimes it just moves us beyond some of the old ways of doing things. However, if the new way takes the place of basic skills that are needed to build from, it is no longer a good thing.

Exactly, technology certainly has a place in educaion, in society as a whole, but the basic tools and building blocks must be retained...otherwise progress eventually grinds to a halt, technology with it.

I called one of my kids' English teachers one time to discuss a concern I had because she showed an R rated version of "Romeo & Julliette" in class. What I got in return was a teacher making excuses about why watching the movie was a legitimate substitute for reading the story.

I trust a severe hauling over the coals was the order of the day in that instance....simply, there was NO excuse for that at all. Whilst this isn't specific to internet or computer use, perse, it susinctly portrays a growing generation of teachers who, more often than not, opt for the easy way to pump maximum information to the most in the shortest time. Modern technology is a wonderful thing and its benifits are enormous, but when its convenience makes us decidedly lazy, without effort or passion, instead of a reading and discussion of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, we get celluloid 'masterpiece' and titillation. A live performance would have been the better alternative, but heaven forbid, the remarkable atmosphere of the theatre required some effort and people skills to get there.

Sadly, the trend isn't confined purely to education! With the computerisation, automation and pre-fabrication of modern times, many skilled and semi-skilled occupations are becoming extinct.

when you buy into the misconception that education is all about retaining information as opposed to learning how to solve problems, you're taking the first misstep on the path leading to ignorance advocacy which manifests itself in 'no child left behind' test standards and those islamic madrasas in which students memorize the koran rather than actually learning to read it.

several people have mentioned electronic calculators and the analogy seems valid to me. arithmetic's multiplication and division tables have no value if you don't know when or what to multiply or divide. calculators don't teach that but they do prevent arithmetic errors that can confuse and prevent students from correctly grasping the nature of a problem and/or the process by which to solve it.

until software becomes so user friendly that it no longer teaches us all with its own subtle learn-logic-by-doing-or-else education, i see computers and the net as the best teaching/learning tool ever available to mankind.

'fraid it ain't me! It's Boomhauer from King of the Hill...

I guess the jokes on me!! I'm a big fan of King of the Hill and I didn't know it was him (although the voice sounded familiar)!

But then I would have 'killed' to have a calculator....and not learn to do long division in my head.

I think that goes for a lot of us!

Instead it was slide-rules and logarythmic tables on the back cover of the exercise books.

Ha, don't remind me...and Math wasn't my fav subject!

Oh yes...and we learned the first 30 or so elements in order......Hydrogen, Helium, Lithium, berylium, boron, carbon, nitrogen...etc...

You're lucky you remember them all!

The ONLY real issue with the net is whether the info gleaned is factual or sheer bullshit....

True to a point...and as 47songs said, debatable!

The clear message I get is that teaching these days has become 'just a job' to some, and therefore, they have no passion for teaching and derive little or no pleasure from the experience....sad for them, sad for the kids.

Unfortunately, this is true about some teachers. One wonders also if they dont' become this way because of all the restrictions place on them in order for them to do their jobs.

My stepdaughter stuggles in the conventional classroom because she also needs a hands on approach, not just computerised learning, so we enrolled her in an alternative learning program where she is flourishing rather than stagnating in, what was to her, the quagmire of an overly complicated environment. Computers are still a part of the school day, but only in conjunction with other methods and are not the primary tool, as was too often the case previously. Now she will pick up and read books, do homework with some enthusiasm, and never use the 'I'm sick' excuse to avoid going to school.

This is what I'm talking about! Yes computers have to be a part of our society today and is a useful tool to use in learning however, we still need that quintessential human experience to add to it. The nuances as mentioned above by others that is so neccessary for our children and young people to learn. Heck even for us older adults!

Technology is great, and sometimes it just moves us beyond some of the old ways of doing things. However, if the new way takes the place of basic skills that are needed to build from, it is no longer a good thing.

Yes, it is great and it does move us forward. There will always be problems with new technology. The glitches won't be known (most times) until the new "tool" is being used and then the glitches can be ironed out. But it is no fun standing in line at a register that doesn't function right or the person using it doens't function!LOl!

I called one of my kids' English teachers one time to discuss a concern I had because she showed an R rated version of "Romeo & Julliette" in class. What I got in return was a teacher making excuses about why watching the movie was a legitimate substitute for reading the story.

I hate when they give you excuses and don't give you real answers.

when you buy into the misconception that education is all about retaining information as opposed to learning how to solve problems

I believe this is the very concept we all derived at Kingbee. Education isn't only about information, it's learning how to solve and how to analyse.

I have always believed that one of the most important skills any person can aquire is the ability to find needed information. This is, in my opinion, far more important than memorizing facts and information that one may or may not ever need.

This is realy the whole point of having students do research and write papers and reports. To teach them proper and efficient information gathering skills and how to form a coherent idea from the various sources of information through analysis.

As long as the gathered information is accurate, it's irrelevant whether it was found in a printed book, newspaper article, or from an online archive. The whole point of the internet is to make information available on a scale never seen before in human history. Perhaps it's up to the teachers to instruct their students on the skills needed to differentiate between valid, credible online information sources from those of more dubious origin.

Research and analysis are the same whether spending days in a library or hours on a computer. One must locate the required information, organize it, digest it, and present the results in the proper format.

Oh yes...and we learned the first 30 or so elements in order......Hydrogen, Helium, Lithium, berylium, boron, carbon, nitrogen...etc... You're lucky you remember them all

How about the original 13 colonies in order of approval of the Constitution?

The biggest problem with Internet "research" IMO is the fact that a vast amount of the material that would be useful to any given report or paper, is NOT online. Good history or science resources are only found in academic journals, or history books that most of the time aren't online at all. As recently as 2 years ago, a majority of the articles from IT industry journals could only be obtained in paper format. In addition to using Google as a crutch, you have the attitude that if it's not online, then it must not be worth knowing.

Thankfully, as I've just turned 23, I grew up through the rapid expansion of the Net. As late as early High School, I still had to do a majority of my research in libraries as online resources didn't exist for most of what I was doing. It wasn't until I was in college that websites became a viable research alternative.

Most people I went to college with NEVER set foot in the library.

Yes, the important thing is to know HOW to get information, not necessarily to have a lot of it memorized, but there are many basic skills that are being lost due to our dependence on technology. People can't do mental math anymore, kids can't list more than a handful of US states, even fewer US Capitals. There is a base level of knowledge that everyone should have, but that's being chipped away steadily by technology. All the while people are yelling "Why memorize? What does it matter how you get the answer so long as you get the answer?" and are completely missing the fact that some knowledge, some memorization is unavoidable and can't (or at least shouldn't) be computerized.

If you depend entirely on computers or calculators to do everything, to find the answers, what do you do when you find yourself without one handy? Sure, you may know how to find the information you need, but you may not always have access, and that's when you'll wish you memorized some of that stuff you always google for. Learning is a combination of knowing how to find/synthesize info/data, storing that info/data in your head, and then referencing it later and applying it to new and different situations. Complete dependence on computer or calculators undermines the last two parts of the process.